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View Poll Results: What do you think Toyota will do?

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  • Shorten and reskin the 86 and drop in the 1.5 liter

    10 90.91%
  • Rebadge and reskin the new Mazda Miata

    0 0%
  • Another joint project with BMW? Z1 / Z2

    1 9.09%
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  1. #1
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    What platform will the S-FR be based on?

    What do you think a production S-FR will be based on?

    1. Shorten reskin 86 chassis with the Corolla's 1.5 liter. This idea has been around for awhile now.
    2. A rebadge version of the new MX-5 Miata. Crazy rumor started by Motoring.com
    3. Another co development with BMW? The German automaker was rumored toying around with the idea of a Z3 successor.
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    Last edited by gymratter; 10-10-2015 at 06:07 PM.

  2. #2
    Member Vracer111's Avatar
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    I think it's pretty much a given it will be an 86 chassis...they already have a great sports car chassis they developed that is pretty flexible in scalability. Might as well get some return on investment with it by using it in a 'baby' 86 and the new Supra... that was probably their plan from the start of development of the GT86 actually.

    And we know it will be using a Toyota 1.5L I4 motor now...

  3. #3
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    I don't think the new "Supra" will have anything to do with the 86. The BMW/Toyota press release has said it will be an all new co develop platform.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ichitaka05's Avatar
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    New chassis design by Toyota.
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    Balance is everything

  5. #5
    Member Sarlacc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichitaka05 View Post
    New chassis design by Toyota.
    +1 on that.

  6. #6
    Member Tcoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichitaka05 View Post
    New chassis design by Toyota.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarlacc View Post
    +1 on that.
    I am with these guys. Although there has been much speculation about the partnership with Mazda it makes zero business sense for Mazda to collaborate in a vehicle that is in direct competition with their current sports car. It worked for Toyota and Subaru since neither had a car of their own but with the Miata already in place why would Mazda want in.
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  7. #7
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    Curious -- was the 86's platform designed to be modular / scalable ?

  8. #8
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    Kinda reminds me of the Mini concept.



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
    I am with these guys. Although there has been much speculation about the partnership with Mazda it makes zero business sense for Mazda to collaborate in a vehicle that is in direct competition with their current sports car. It worked for Toyota and Subaru since neither had a car of their own but with the Miata already in place why would Mazda want in.
    To prove no one can do it better, even using the same chassis?

    Ok half joking. But what about rumors that the next Supra (if we ever see it) will use the next gen BMW Z4 platform? I mean companies co-develop stuff all the time, even for directly competing cars. GM and Ford codeveloping 8speed transmission that will make its way into the Camaro/Mustang. Slightly different since we are talking about a full (existing) platform but sports cars are not good business anymore. There's a lot of cost sharing going on to make sure these are financially viable projects.

    I agree Mazda has no real reason to do it with an already existing MX-5 but who knows maybe the joint venture started before any of us realized and Toyota has been funding and developing some of it to derive benefit for its own cars. Just a wild thought.

  10. #10
    Member Tcoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post
    To prove no one can do it better, even using the same chassis?

    Ok half joking. But what about rumors that the next Supra (if we ever see it) will use the next gen BMW Z4 platform? I mean companies co-develop stuff all the time, even for directly competing cars. GM and Ford codeveloping 8speed transmission that will make its way into the Camaro/Mustang. Slightly different since we are talking about a full (existing) platform but sports cars are not good business anymore. There's a lot of cost sharing going on to make sure these are financially viable projects.

    I agree Mazda has no real reason to do it with an already existing MX-5 but who knows maybe the joint venture started before any of us realized and Toyota has been funding and developing some of it to derive benefit for its own cars. Just a wild thought.
    Oh I get the sharing part the FRS/BRZ shows there is value in that but in the case of Mazda they already have such a car. It would just be silly for them to hand Toyota the Miata platform and say "here have at it". The Mazda/Toyota shared platform will be the same as the 86 in that it will be a car that neither currently makes. The same thing goes for the BMW partnership.

  11. #11
    Member Nevermore's Avatar
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    I just had a thought for the "why would Mazda help Toyota compete with the Miata" crowd. I'll play devil's advocate because I like to do so sometimes. Do we know if any of the companies that share stuff with one another set up royalty deals? It might seem silly of Mazda to help Toyota take on the Miata, but what if Mazda gets like, 10% of the profit, or something? Maybe a fixed check amount for every car sold since they helped.

  12. #12
    Junior Member strat61caster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevermore View Post
    I just had a thought for the "why would Mazda help Toyota compete with the Miata" crowd. I'll play devil's advocate because I like to do so sometimes. Do we know if any of the companies that share stuff with one another set up royalty deals? It might seem silly of Mazda to help Toyota take on the Miata, but what if Mazda gets like, 10% of the profit, or something? Maybe a fixed check amount for every car sold since they helped.
    Toyota is using the Mazda2 as the basis for the Scion iA and Yaris. Here's an article from a few months ago about their recent technical partnership:

    http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...-confront-cost

    I also do not believe the chassis will be shared with a Miata, the SFR is claiming front struts is a pretty big red flag. However they could still pull from one of Mazda's other chassis or a modified 86 chassis would work as well I believe. The 1.5L engine could be Mazda straight up or even Mazda co-developed based on the hp/L, DI, and the above article that Toyota is interested in Skyactiv.

    And now for some mild rumor mill speculation, anybody remember the recent Mazda tease?

    http://www2.mazda.com/en/publicity/r...9/150930a.html




    Hmm a coupe, while much sleeker than the SFR not radically disproportionate. Again struts seem like a no-no for Mazda who's had double wishbones on their coupes going back to the 80's, but suspension specs have been mistranslated before, everybody thought the 86 would have a double wishbone rear until the cars were fucking bought.

    Small, very light F-RWD coupe, engine bay barely big enough for a 1.5L, 7" longer wheelbase than a Miata with decent storage space... Every RX-7 has had a wheelbase of 95.3"-95.7" compared to the SFR's 97", the RX-8 has a wheelbase of 106" and half doors.

    I think there's an outside chance that the SFR is a shared chassis between Toyota and Mazda who will use it for a new RX. At least, I think that's much more likely than it being based off the Miata without any other caveats (definitely not going to rule out modified Miata chassis). Kinda reminds me of the Toyobaru deal, Subaru develops a good chassis for Toyota, Toyota helps them build the FA20 which has really given their lineup a boost in terms of power/fuel economy. Maybe Mazda is helping out Toyota with SkyActiv and a chassis in exchange for Wankel funding...

    Edit: it would also address a few criticisms leveled at the 86, no big power model, styling too similar between the two options, lack of character, etc.

    Edit2: If Toyota designs the chassis on their own, maybe a modified 86, significantly reduces the load off Mazda's design costs, Toyota pays for the SkyActiv tech to develop a better 1.5L unit to apply across Toyota's lineup, Mazda gets a fat contract to build a bunch of coupes for Toyota and uses the money to finish the 16X and stuff it into a handful of those coupes it will build for Toyota.

    And now re-reading that, why bother involving Mazda at all? Just build the damn coupe on their own.
    Last edited by strat61caster; 10-13-2015 at 09:46 AM.
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  13. #13
    Member Nevermore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
    Toyota is using the Mazda2 as the basis for the Scion iA and Yaris. Here's an article from a few months ago about their recent technical partnership:

    http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...-confront-cost

    I also do not believe the chassis will be shared with a Miata, the SFR is claiming front struts is a pretty big red flag. However they could still pull from one of Mazda's other chassis or a modified 86 chassis would work as well I believe. The 1.5L engine could be Mazda straight up or even Mazda co-developed based on the hp/L, DI, and the above article that Toyota is interested in Skyactiv.

    And now for some mild rumor mill speculation, anybody remember the recent Mazda tease?

    http://www2.mazda.com/en/publicity/r...9/150930a.html




    Hmm a coupe, while much sleeker than the SFR not radically disproportionate. Again struts seem like a no-no for Mazda who's had double wishbones on their coupes going back to the 80's, but suspension specs have been mistranslated before, everybody thought the 86 would have a double wishbone rear until the cars were fucking bought.

    Small, very light F-RWD coupe, engine bay barely big enough for a 1.5L, 7" longer wheelbase than a Miata with decent storage space... Every RX-7 has had a wheelbase of 95.3"-95.7" compared to the SFR's 97", the RX-8 has a wheelbase of 106" and half doors.

    I think there's an outside chance that the SFR is a shared chassis between Toyota and Mazda who will use it for a new RX. At least, I think that's much more likely than it being based off the Miata without any other caveats (definitely not going to rule out modified Miata chassis). Kinda reminds me of the Toyobaru deal, Subaru develops a good chassis for Toyota, Toyota helps them build the FA20 which has really given their lineup a boost in terms of power/fuel economy. Maybe Mazda is helping out Toyota with SkyActiv and a chassis in exchange for Wankel funding...

    Edit: it would also address a few criticisms leveled at the 86, no big power model, styling too similar between the two options, lack of character, etc.
    That's very compelling. See, I honestly had no clue about any of it, so this is quite a nice response. I was mostly curious from a financial standpoint, but engineering is engineering, so this makes more sense than any financial answer probably would.

    And you just had to include that Mazda! Ugh, I want to know more about that car, and now. Why can't they do a press release for it like the S-FR? I want to see it! And I do hope you're wrong about one thing, though. It might be blasphemy but I don't want a wankel in that new sports car. They just don't appeal to me. ...But that's another discussion for somewhere else.

  14. #14
    Member Tcoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post

    I think there's an outside chance that the SFR is a shared chassis between Toyota and Mazda who will use it for a new RX. At least, I think that's much more likely than it being based off the Miata without any other caveats (definitely not going to rule out modified Miata chassis). Kinda reminds me of the Toyobaru deal, Subaru develops a good chassis for Toyota, Toyota helps them build the FA20 which has really given their lineup a boost in terms of power/fuel economy. Maybe Mazda is helping out Toyota with SkyActiv and a chassis in exchange for Wankel funding...

    .
    Now this I can see! That makes far more sense then Mazda giving away (even for a % of sales) their flagship sports car platform. A whole different shared platform would be much more feasible and there could certainly be a business case for it. I had forgotten about that little teaser but like you said it fits perfectly.

  15. #15
    Junior Member strat61caster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevermore View Post
    That's very compelling. See, I honestly had no clue about any of it, so this is quite a nice response. I was mostly curious from a financial standpoint, but engineering is engineering, so this makes more sense than any financial answer probably would.

    And you just had to include that Mazda! Ugh, I want to know more about that car, and now. Why can't they do a press release for it like the S-FR? I want to see it! And I do hope you're wrong about one thing, though. It might be blasphemy but I don't want a wankel in that new sports car. They just don't appeal to me. ...But that's another discussion for somewhere else.
    Per the link provided they will release more details at the Tokyo auto show, October 30th-November 8th.

    If I'm right then you don't have to have a wankel in that new sports car

    Quote Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
    Now this I can see! That makes far more sense then Mazda giving away (even for a % of sales) their flagship sports car platform. A whole different shared platform would be much more feasible and there could certainly be a business case for it. I had forgotten about that little teaser but like you said it fits perfectly.
    Hehe, far from perfectly imo, but it's certainly feasible. Especially when you remember that Toyota was exploring a rotary for the 86 at some point.

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