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  1. #16
    Junior Member ErikRPM's Avatar
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    I think something has to be lost in translation, I mean $10,000 cheaper than the Miata? Am I to believe this will be priced slightly higher than a Mitsubishi Mirage?

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traum View Post
    I would not expect this car to be build on anything related to the ND Miata at all.

    First of all, the car is running on front struts. A body derived from the Miata would almost certainly use double wishbones in the front since that's what the Miata uses. And then you look at the engine -- it's Toyota's own 2NR-FKE. If the chassis is borrowed / modified from a Miata, it would make more sense to just use the Miata engine as well since that would save a LOT of re-engineering to make things fit.
    Good points. If true, that means we're looking at either the FR-S/BRZ platform or a new custom platform developed in-house?

  3. #18
    Member Vracer111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callie View Post
    Good points. If true, that means we're looking at either the FR-S/BRZ platform or a new custom platform developed in-house?
    Correct...and they already have a developed chassis with the 86 to start off with...move a revised rear segment up for the wheelbase change, and revise the center tunnel, change the A, B, and C pillar and custom front bulkhead/bumper structure (which is bolted on structure in this car) as needed, then call it a day:



    With a 50/50 weight distribution advertised, the front will have less mass than the FR-S does... I guarantee you a 1.5L I4 Toyota motor is not the boat anchor the 2.0L Subaru Boxer is...plus it is located a little farther back in relation to the front axle.

    It's going to be a revised 86 chassis...
    Last edited by Vracer111; 10-11-2015 at 06:03 PM.

  4. #19
    Member shark_bait88's Avatar
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    Looking at the pictures in this thread, it dawned on me that the beltline, and A-line to some degree, give the car a rather baby-S2000 appearance. (In particular if you look at an S2000 CR with its factory black hardtop)









    Maybe it's more my imagination tricking me, but the rather straight edged beltline that tapers down into the front headlight gives a bit of a more modern baby-S2000 look. (With some obvious design changes of course)
    "What's the point of wearing your favorite rocketship underpants if nobody ever asks to see 'em?"

    2013 FR-S:17x7 Kosei K1 TS track/autox wheels, Berk single-exit muffler delete, and PMU Club Racer track pads.

  5. #20
    Member shark_bait88's Avatar
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    Also, the leaked specs all seem pretty plausible. Except for the price. Perhaps a domestic price in Japan could be set around that number, but I highly doubt the S-FR will be that cheap if it comes to the U.S. That'd make it one of the most affordable new cars on the market. It's highly unlikely that Toyota, or any manufacturer for that matter, will be able to produce a good sports car at that price point. If it does actually get priced around there, it will cast serious doubt in mind as to how good it will actually be on the road.

    While not always true, there's something to be said for the old adage, "You get what you pay for."
    "What's the point of wearing your favorite rocketship underpants if nobody ever asks to see 'em?"

    2013 FR-S:17x7 Kosei K1 TS track/autox wheels, Berk single-exit muffler delete, and PMU Club Racer track pads.

  6. #21
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    Love how far back the engine sits in the transparent side view image. Looks fully behind the front axle, or close to it.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark_bait88 View Post
    Also, the leaked specs all seem pretty plausible. Except for the price. Perhaps a domestic price in Japan could be set around that number, but I highly doubt the S-FR will be that cheap if it comes to the U.S. That'd make it one of the most affordable new cars on the market. It's highly unlikely that Toyota, or any manufacturer for that matter, will be able to produce a good sports car at that price point. If it does actually get priced around there, it will cast serious doubt in mind as to how good it will actually be on the road.

    While not always true, there's something to be said for the old adage, "You get what you pay for."
    Funny how that works, you give everyone an unbelievable bargain and suddenly the car seems less... appealing? I do agree to some point, but it could come completely stripped down, no auto trans option, low tech, parts bin everything and just a pure track and autocross driver's dream. Could they do it? I bet they could. Doubt they will though. This seems headed straight for Scion branding and marketed towards young millenials that want an affordable fun and economical car.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Ichitaka05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tectonic View Post
    Funny how that works, you give everyone an unbelievable bargain and suddenly the car seems less... appealing? I do agree to some point, but it could come completely stripped down, no auto trans option, low tech, parts bin everything and just a pure track and autocross driver's dream. Could they do it? I bet they could. Doubt they will though. This seems headed straight for Scion branding and marketed towards young millenials that want an affordable fun and economical car.
    Put "roller" for window, instead of electric winder roller and save couple more lbs and $$$ lol
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    Balance is everything

  9. #24
    Member shark_bait88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tectonic View Post
    Funny how that works, you give everyone an unbelievable bargain and suddenly the car seems less... appealing? I do agree to some point, but it could come completely stripped down, no auto trans option, low tech, parts bin everything and just a pure track and autocross driver's dream. Could they do it? I bet they could. Doubt they will though. This seems headed straight for Scion branding and marketed towards young millenials that want an affordable fun and economical car.
    I'm not saying it'd be less appealing, I was saying I'd be more suspicious of its true potential until actually getting to experience it in person. Hell, I'd love it even more if it were a bare-bones enthusiast machine.

    They certainly could do such a thing, but it's incredibly unlikely that they would. At this price point it's volume sales that make money, and very few manufacturers are likely to sell a vehicle with such a minuscule target market. With a more performance oriented platform, like the 911, stripped down versions, a la 911 RS, that cost less money are more common because there's either a significant enough market for it or the loss on a limited edition can be justified by the sales of regular models (at least that's the justification behind "halo cars"). That's not to say it can't happen though. The Veloster R-Spec is a stripped down Veloster Turbo with stiffer springs and a short-shifter that they priced below the normal Veloster Turbo. But you're more likely to see that sort of one-off enthusiast trim than an entire platform oriented specifically to hardcore autocrossers and track junkies.
    "What's the point of wearing your favorite rocketship underpants if nobody ever asks to see 'em?"

    2013 FR-S:17x7 Kosei K1 TS track/autox wheels, Berk single-exit muffler delete, and PMU Club Racer track pads.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark_bait88 View Post
    Also, the leaked specs all seem pretty plausible. Except for the price. Perhaps a domestic price in Japan could be set around that number, but I highly doubt the S-FR will be that cheap if it comes to the U.S. That'd make it one of the most affordable new cars on the market. It's highly unlikely that Toyota, or any manufacturer for that matter, will be able to produce a good sports car at that price point. If it does actually get priced around there, it will cast serious doubt in mind as to how good it will actually be on the road.
    Easiest way is just to look at the JDM vs US Miata's prices and see how they compare. The base 2016 Miata costs 2.5 million yen in Japan, which is $20,800 USD equivalent.

    The base US Miata costs $24,915, about 20% more than the JDM price. The S-FR is said to be targeted for a price of $12,500 USD in Japan. If pricing scales follow the Miata pricing scale and you add 20% to that, it would make the S-FR about $15,000 for the US market.
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  11. #26
    Member shark_bait88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socalrider View Post
    Easiest way is just to look at the JDM vs US Miata's prices and see how they compare. The base 2016 Miata costs 2.5 million yen in Japan, which is $20,800 USD equivalent.

    The base US Miata costs $24,915, about 20% more than the JDM price. The S-FR is said to be targeted for a price of $12,500 USD in Japan. If pricing scales follow the Miata pricing scale and you add 20% to that, it would make the S-FR about $15,000 for the US market.
    Could be. But you're also directly relating the pricing structures of two different manufacturers. My guess is that a USD starting price of around $17-19k would be the goal to shoot for, and would still make it a great deal. If they can get under that, I'd be even more impressed and happier.

    Guess we'll have to wait and see.
    "What's the point of wearing your favorite rocketship underpants if nobody ever asks to see 'em?"

    2013 FR-S:17x7 Kosei K1 TS track/autox wheels, Berk single-exit muffler delete, and PMU Club Racer track pads.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socalrider View Post
    Easiest way is just to look at the JDM vs US Miata's prices and see how they compare. The base 2016 Miata costs 2.5 million yen in Japan, which is $20,800 USD equivalent.


    The base US Miata costs $24,915, about 20% more than the JDM price. The S-FR is said to be targeted for a price of $12,500 USD in Japan. If pricing scales follow the Miata pricing scale and you add 20% to that, it would make the S-FR about $15,000 for the US market.

    I agree with this evaluation.

    Also, keep in mind that $15K could easily be made $16k and still be very inexpensive for a fun coupe. That price would put the S-FR at roughly the same price as the iM which, relatively speaking is loaded with nice options for a car in its' segment (check the video reviews). $15-$16K is indeed about $10K less than a Miata.

    Toyota has been hinting at this car for a few years now (a fun rear drive four-seater positioned under FT-86). Many (including myself) assumed it would be a replacement version of the gen 3 Aygo. It makes just as much sense that this would be a shortened FT-86. This could be Toyota's way of building and amortizing costs of an inexpensive dedicated sports car chassis in the modern era.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAEMANO View Post
    I agree with this evaluation.

    Also, keep in mind that $15K could easily be made $16k and still be very inexpensive for a fun coupe. That price would put the S-FR at roughly the same price as the iM which, relatively speaking is loaded with nice options for a car in its' segment (check the video reviews). $15-$16K is indeed about $10K less than a Miata.

    Toyota has been hinting at this car for a few years now (a fun rear drive four-seater positioned under FT-86). Many (including myself) assumed it would be a replacement version of the gen 3 Aygo. It makes just as much sense that this would be a shortened FT-86. This could be Toyota's way of building and amortizing costs of an inexpensive dedicated sports car chassis in the modern era.
    Sub $20k would really provide the truly affordable back to basics sports car the FR-S was supposed to be.

    But say the S-FR comes to US with these specs and is priced at $17k for arguments sake. How is there $8k difference in price between this car and the FR-S. Is it really that much cheaper to make and equip this car?

  14. #29
    Member Vracer111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PZero View Post
    Sub $20k would really provide the truly affordable back to basics sports car the FR-S was supposed to be.

    But say the S-FR comes to US with these specs and is priced at $17k for arguments sake. How is there $8k difference in price between this car and the FR-S. Is it really that much cheaper to make and equip this car?
    Not sure there's $8k worth, but here's some differences that would allow for a cheaper price than the FR-S:

    1) 1.5L I4 Toyota motor verses 2.0L Subaru Boxer motor
    2) No LSD (assumed)
    3) No Air Bags in seats (assumed), or alternatively airbags in seats but no side curtain ones...or maybe no airbags except for driver and passenger ones...
    4) More extensive use of Toyota parts-bin components
    5) Re-using some parts developed for the FR-S (cost sharing)
    6) 4-bolt versus 5-bolt design (hubs/brakes/wheels)
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    My FR-S: 13' Asphalt, 6MT

  15. #30
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    ^^ I think these are good possibilities, though I assume the airbag systems aren't going to be skimped on with the crash safety standards of today. Also, the front and rear suspension appears to be simplified from the FR-S. Perhaps dialed in from test mules and then made more cheaply than FR-S suspension parts with less potential for drastic re-adjustment.

    But I do hope an LSD is at least an optional package if not standard. If it's not even available I'd be less interested. The 130hp sounds fine but open diff only would be rather boring. I think it will be optional at the very least.
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