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Administrator
10-09-2015, 02:22 PM
We've been tipped on the S-FR technical specs and pricing target. Here are the important figures (translated from below):


2NR-FKE engine (tuned version of the one used in Japan's Corolla, now with direct injection and revised ports)
1.5L inline 4 cylinder dual-overhead cam (DOHC)
130 PS / 15.1kgf.m (109.2 lb-ft torque)
Aisin 6 Speed Transmission only (no automatic)
Fuel consumption: 20.0km/l (47 mpg) (Japanese test cycle)
Regular gasoline (no premium needed)
Weight: 980kg (2160 lbs)
Suspension: Front struts / double wishbone rear
3990 mm length, 1695 mm width, 1320 mm height, 2480 mm wheelbase
Estimated price (Japan) is $10k (USD equivalent) less than the current Miata

Note: 1.5L Miata is $20.8k including tax in Japan, S-FR is estimated to be $12.5k including tax

Keep in mind that this is for the Japanese market S-FR. Other markets (such as U.S.) may or may not be powered by a different engine and may receive an automatic option.



80

69

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71

72



73

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76

77

78

Pufferfish
10-09-2015, 03:23 PM
I dig them specs! That's amazing pricing if they hold to the same % in the US!

130hp doesnt sound like much but 2160 pounds is not a lot to pull around. This thing is gonna be fun.

PZero
10-09-2015, 03:31 PM
No auto wow. Really aiming this one at the enthusiasts. So it's a Toyota engine after all. What does the 2NR-FKE rev up to?

Callie
10-09-2015, 03:43 PM
That price tho, very very nice. Gonna be so fun to whip this thing around and i gotta say it looks better in these pics.

EsEfR
10-09-2015, 05:15 PM
I'm pleased with the specs. Will the US possibly see - bigger engine and an auto tho? #pleasedontlynchmeforaskingaboutauto :)

Toyo Guy
10-09-2015, 05:56 PM
Probably not many have heard of the 2NR-FKE engine. It's the engine used in the current Corolla in Japan. It has more power in the S-FR by way of direct injection and revised port design.

Features include Atkinson-to-Otto cycle capability, electric VVT-iE and intake port shape optimized for strong vertical tumble flow, near-hybrid maximum thermal efficiency of 38%

Asone
10-09-2015, 06:06 PM
In case anyone is interested, the link to that site that listed those specs. LINK (http://car.kurumagt.com/2015-270b.html)

Also, some of those info were already there back in May. LINK (http://sports-car.info/270b-s660-%E6%96%B0%E5%9E%8B-%E3%83%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%8 3%BC-%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9A%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E2%80%90%E4%B E%A1%E6%A0%BC/)

shark_bait88
10-09-2015, 08:26 PM
Diggin' these specs, but still don't expect them to be the same in the US. We'll see though. I love the idea of it having a Toyota sourced engine!

Traum
10-09-2015, 08:36 PM
2NR-FKE engine (tuned version of the one used in Japan's Corolla, now with direct injection and revised ports)
1.5L inline 4 cylinder dual-overhead cam (DOHC)
130 PS / 15.1kgf.m (109.2 lb-ft torque)
...
Suspension: Front struts / double wishbone rear

Hmm... Looking at these items, colour me unimpressed...

I obviously have no previous experience with the 2NR-FKE, but considering its roots, and I can't say my expectations for it would be all that high. DI will help with both power and fuel economy; revised ports would likely improve air flow (both intake and exhaust), but the combustion chamber remains a decidedly undersquare design. Compared to the 1.5L DJ Demio / ND Miata engine, you can see for the numbers yourself:

Toyota 2NR-FKE
bore x stroke: 72.5 mm 90.6 mm

Mazda SkyActiv-G 1.5
bore x stroke: 74.5 mm 85.8 mm

You can easily see that while both engines are undersquare / long stroke type, the 2NR-FKE has both a smaller bore and a (much) longer stroke. With such a long stroke, I can't imagine why the engine would be rev happy at all, or how it could achieve a high redline. You may not care about rev-ability or high redline, and a robust low end is usually good for everyday street driving, but you almost always want the opposite in a sporty car.

The suspension is a strut type setup. Do I really need to say anything more? Yes, supporters of the car will say Porsches run on struts as well, and yes, the FRS also drives phenomenally well with its struts. Still, I'd argue that these cars drive well in spite of having a strut suspension setup, not because of the strut setup. Look at any double wishbone car that gets driven aggressive and pay attention to their tire wear. Now look again at those cars that run with struts. That difference is all you really need to see.

The S-FR can obviously still do well in spite of these shortcomings... but like I said... it's in spite of, not because of... :(

Sarlacc
10-10-2015, 03:45 AM
I was kind of hoping they'd fit something like the 4U-GSE engine from the GT86 in this.

Vash
10-10-2015, 12:42 PM
Sorry if I missed it being confirmed somewhere in another thread but this info doesn't say what chassis/platform the car is built on. Do we know that yet?

I've read speculation (but no actual confirmation) that it might share the Miata platform. Or is this a new ground up platform by Toyota

Vash
10-10-2015, 12:45 PM
I was kind of hoping they'd fit something like the 4U-GSE engine from the GT86 in this.

I remember a big talking point from the FR-S engineers was that they used that engine because it was able to sit so low in the car, for better CoG. Will be interesting to see if they were able to achieve the same with the 2NR-FKE in the S-FR.

Traum
10-10-2015, 01:03 PM
Sorry if I missed it being confirmed somewhere in another thread but this info doesn't say what chassis/platform the car is built on. Do we know that yet?

I've read speculation (but no actual confirmation) that it might share the Miata platform. Or is this a new ground up platform by Toyota
I would not expect this car to be build on anything related to the ND Miata at all.

First of all, the car is running on front struts. A body derived from the Miata would almost certainly use double wishbones in the front since that's what the Miata uses. And then you look at the engine -- it's Toyota's own 2NR-FKE. If the chassis is borrowed / modified from a Miata, it would make more sense to just use the Miata engine as well since that would save a LOT of re-engineering to make things fit.

Ichitaka05
10-10-2015, 04:08 PM
Hmm... Looking at these items, colour me unimpressed...

I obviously have no previous experience with the 2NR-FKE, but considering its roots, and I can't say my expectations for it would be all that high. DI will help with both power and fuel economy; revised ports would likely improve air flow (both intake and exhaust), but the combustion chamber remains a decidedly undersquare design. Compared to the 1.5L DJ Demio / ND Miata engine, you can see for the numbers yourself:

Toyota 2NR-FKE
bore x stroke: 72.5 mm 90.6 mm

Mazda SkyActiv-G 1.5
bore x stroke: 74.5 mm 85.8 mm

You can easily see that while both engines are undersquare / long stroke type, the 2NR-FKE has both a smaller bore and a (much) longer stroke. With such a long stroke, I can't imagine why the engine would be rev happy at all, or how it could achieve a high redline. You may not care about rev-ability or high redline, and a robust low end is usually good for everyday street driving, but you almost always want the opposite in a sporty car.

The suspension is a strut type setup. Do I really need to say anything more? Yes, supporters of the car will say Porsches run on struts as well, and yes, the FRS also drives phenomenally well with its struts. Still, I'd argue that these cars drive well in spite of having a strut suspension setup, not because of the strut setup. Look at any double wishbone car that gets driven aggressive and pay attention to their tire wear. Now look again at those cars that run with struts. That difference is all you really need to see.

The S-FR can obviously still do well in spite of these shortcomings... but like I said... it's in spite of, not because of... :(

I think, it's too early to call it.

A lot of ppl were upset when Toyota announced that they gonna use Subie's FB engine and everyone compared it... but they improved the engine & made it good (enough).

I'm pretty sure they'll do something to this engine as well

Pufferfish
10-10-2015, 10:13 PM
I think, it's too early to call it.

A lot of ppl were upset when Toyota announced that they gonna use Subie's FB engine and everyone compared it... but they improved the engine & made it good (enough).

I'm pretty sure they'll do something to this engine as well

+1 it's already been revealed to add DI and revised port design. There may be more performance enhancements not yet revealed.

ErikRPM
10-11-2015, 11:25 AM
I think something has to be lost in translation, I mean $10,000 cheaper than the Miata? Am I to believe this will be priced slightly higher than a Mitsubishi Mirage?

Callie
10-11-2015, 02:59 PM
I would not expect this car to be build on anything related to the ND Miata at all.

First of all, the car is running on front struts. A body derived from the Miata would almost certainly use double wishbones in the front since that's what the Miata uses. And then you look at the engine -- it's Toyota's own 2NR-FKE. If the chassis is borrowed / modified from a Miata, it would make more sense to just use the Miata engine as well since that would save a LOT of re-engineering to make things fit.

Good points. If true, that means we're looking at either the FR-S/BRZ platform or a new custom platform developed in-house?

Vracer111
10-11-2015, 05:38 PM
Good points. If true, that means we're looking at either the FR-S/BRZ platform or a new custom platform developed in-house?

Correct...and they already have a developed chassis with the 86 to start off with...move a revised rear segment up for the wheelbase change, and revise the center tunnel, change the A, B, and C pillar and custom front bulkhead/bumper structure (which is bolted on structure in this car) as needed, then call it a day:

http://subaru.at/images/models/brz/e000926-lg_img.jpg

With a 50/50 weight distribution advertised, the front will have less mass than the FR-S does... I guarantee you a 1.5L I4 Toyota motor is not the boat anchor the 2.0L Subaru Boxer is...plus it is located a little farther back in relation to the front axle.

It's going to be a revised 86 chassis...

shark_bait88
10-12-2015, 04:09 AM
Looking at the pictures in this thread, it dawned on me that the beltline, and A-line to some degree, give the car a rather baby-S2000 appearance. (In particular if you look at an S2000 CR with its factory black hardtop)

http://www.sfrforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73&d=1444430857

http://forums.wakeboarder.com/files/honda-s2000-2007-titel.jpg

http://www.sfrforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75&d=1444430857

http://www.techfresh.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/s2000cr_02.jpg

Maybe it's more my imagination tricking me, but the rather straight edged beltline that tapers down into the front headlight gives a bit of a more modern baby-S2000 look. (With some obvious design changes of course)

shark_bait88
10-12-2015, 04:11 AM
Also, the leaked specs all seem pretty plausible. Except for the price. Perhaps a domestic price in Japan could be set around that number, but I highly doubt the S-FR will be that cheap if it comes to the U.S. That'd make it one of the most affordable new cars on the market. It's highly unlikely that Toyota, or any manufacturer for that matter, will be able to produce a good sports car at that price point. If it does actually get priced around there, it will cast serious doubt in mind as to how good it will actually be on the road.

While not always true, there's something to be said for the old adage, "You get what you pay for."

Mac
10-12-2015, 08:13 AM
Love how far back the engine sits in the transparent side view image. Looks fully behind the front axle, or close to it.

Tectonic
10-12-2015, 09:21 AM
Also, the leaked specs all seem pretty plausible. Except for the price. Perhaps a domestic price in Japan could be set around that number, but I highly doubt the S-FR will be that cheap if it comes to the U.S. That'd make it one of the most affordable new cars on the market. It's highly unlikely that Toyota, or any manufacturer for that matter, will be able to produce a good sports car at that price point. If it does actually get priced around there, it will cast serious doubt in mind as to how good it will actually be on the road.

While not always true, there's something to be said for the old adage, "You get what you pay for."

Funny how that works, you give everyone an unbelievable bargain and suddenly the car seems less... appealing? I do agree to some point, but it could come completely stripped down, no auto trans option, low tech, parts bin everything and just a pure track and autocross driver's dream. Could they do it? I bet they could. Doubt they will though. This seems headed straight for Scion branding and marketed towards young millenials that want an affordable fun and economical car.

Ichitaka05
10-12-2015, 09:35 AM
Funny how that works, you give everyone an unbelievable bargain and suddenly the car seems less... appealing? I do agree to some point, but it could come completely stripped down, no auto trans option, low tech, parts bin everything and just a pure track and autocross driver's dream. Could they do it? I bet they could. Doubt they will though. This seems headed straight for Scion branding and marketed towards young millenials that want an affordable fun and economical car.

Put "roller" for window, instead of electric winder roller and save couple more lbs and $$$ lol

shark_bait88
10-12-2015, 10:51 AM
Funny how that works, you give everyone an unbelievable bargain and suddenly the car seems less... appealing? I do agree to some point, but it could come completely stripped down, no auto trans option, low tech, parts bin everything and just a pure track and autocross driver's dream. Could they do it? I bet they could. Doubt they will though. This seems headed straight for Scion branding and marketed towards young millenials that want an affordable fun and economical car.

I'm not saying it'd be less appealing, I was saying I'd be more suspicious of its true potential until actually getting to experience it in person. Hell, I'd love it even more if it were a bare-bones enthusiast machine.

They certainly could do such a thing, but it's incredibly unlikely that they would. At this price point it's volume sales that make money, and very few manufacturers are likely to sell a vehicle with such a minuscule target market. With a more performance oriented platform, like the 911, stripped down versions, a la 911 RS, that cost less money are more common because there's either a significant enough market for it or the loss on a limited edition can be justified by the sales of regular models (at least that's the justification behind "halo cars"). That's not to say it can't happen though. The Veloster R-Spec is a stripped down Veloster Turbo with stiffer springs and a short-shifter that they priced below the normal Veloster Turbo. But you're more likely to see that sort of one-off enthusiast trim than an entire platform oriented specifically to hardcore autocrossers and track junkies.

Socalrider
10-12-2015, 01:30 PM
Also, the leaked specs all seem pretty plausible. Except for the price. Perhaps a domestic price in Japan could be set around that number, but I highly doubt the S-FR will be that cheap if it comes to the U.S. That'd make it one of the most affordable new cars on the market. It's highly unlikely that Toyota, or any manufacturer for that matter, will be able to produce a good sports car at that price point. If it does actually get priced around there, it will cast serious doubt in mind as to how good it will actually be on the road.

Easiest way is just to look at the JDM vs US Miata's prices and see how they compare. The base 2016 Miata costs 2.5 million yen in Japan, which is $20,800 USD equivalent.

The base US Miata costs $24,915, about 20% more than the JDM price. The S-FR is said to be targeted for a price of $12,500 USD in Japan. If pricing scales follow the Miata pricing scale and you add 20% to that, it would make the S-FR about $15,000 for the US market.

shark_bait88
10-12-2015, 01:43 PM
Easiest way is just to look at the JDM vs US Miata's prices and see how they compare. The base 2016 Miata costs 2.5 million yen in Japan, which is $20,800 USD equivalent.

The base US Miata costs $24,915, about 20% more than the JDM price. The S-FR is said to be targeted for a price of $12,500 USD in Japan. If pricing scales follow the Miata pricing scale and you add 20% to that, it would make the S-FR about $15,000 for the US market.

Could be. But you're also directly relating the pricing structures of two different manufacturers. My guess is that a USD starting price of around $17-19k would be the goal to shoot for, and would still make it a great deal. If they can get under that, I'd be even more impressed and happier.

Guess we'll have to wait and see. ;)

DAEMANO
10-12-2015, 01:53 PM
Easiest way is just to look at the JDM vs US Miata's prices and see how they compare. The base 2016 Miata costs 2.5 million yen in Japan, which is $20,800 USD equivalent.


The base US Miata costs $24,915, about 20% more than the JDM price. The S-FR is said to be targeted for a price of $12,500 USD in Japan. If pricing scales follow the Miata pricing scale and you add 20% to that, it would make the S-FR about $15,000 for the US market.


I agree with this evaluation.

Also, keep in mind that $15K could easily be made $16k and still be very inexpensive for a fun coupe. That price would put the S-FR at roughly the same price as the iM which, relatively speaking is loaded with nice options for a car in its' segment (check the video reviews). $15-$16K is indeed about $10K less than a Miata.

Toyota has been hinting at this car for a few years now (a fun rear drive four-seater positioned under FT-86). Many (including myself) assumed it would be a replacement version of the gen 3 Aygo. It makes just as much sense that this would be a shortened FT-86. This could be Toyota's way of building and amortizing costs of an inexpensive dedicated sports car chassis in the modern era.

PZero
10-12-2015, 10:21 PM
I agree with this evaluation.

Also, keep in mind that $15K could easily be made $16k and still be very inexpensive for a fun coupe. That price would put the S-FR at roughly the same price as the iM which, relatively speaking is loaded with nice options for a car in its' segment (check the video reviews). $15-$16K is indeed about $10K less than a Miata.

Toyota has been hinting at this car for a few years now (a fun rear drive four-seater positioned under FT-86). Many (including myself) assumed it would be a replacement version of the gen 3 Aygo. It makes just as much sense that this would be a shortened FT-86. This could be Toyota's way of building and amortizing costs of an inexpensive dedicated sports car chassis in the modern era.

Sub $20k would really provide the truly affordable back to basics sports car the FR-S was supposed to be.

But say the S-FR comes to US with these specs and is priced at $17k for arguments sake. How is there $8k difference in price between this car and the FR-S. Is it really that much cheaper to make and equip this car?

Vracer111
10-12-2015, 11:31 PM
Sub $20k would really provide the truly affordable back to basics sports car the FR-S was supposed to be.

But say the S-FR comes to US with these specs and is priced at $17k for arguments sake. How is there $8k difference in price between this car and the FR-S. Is it really that much cheaper to make and equip this car?

Not sure there's $8k worth, but here's some differences that would allow for a cheaper price than the FR-S:

1) 1.5L I4 Toyota motor verses 2.0L Subaru Boxer motor
2) No LSD (assumed)
3) No Air Bags in seats (assumed), or alternatively airbags in seats but no side curtain ones...or maybe no airbags except for driver and passenger ones...
4) More extensive use of Toyota parts-bin components
5) Re-using some parts developed for the FR-S (cost sharing)
6) 4-bolt versus 5-bolt design (hubs/brakes/wheels)

cinephile
10-12-2015, 11:48 PM
^^ I think these are good possibilities, though I assume the airbag systems aren't going to be skimped on with the crash safety standards of today. Also, the front and rear suspension appears to be simplified from the FR-S. Perhaps dialed in from test mules and then made more cheaply than FR-S suspension parts with less potential for drastic re-adjustment.

But I do hope an LSD is at least an optional package if not standard. If it's not even available I'd be less interested. The 130hp sounds fine but open diff only would be rather boring. I think it will be optional at the very least.

einzlr
10-13-2015, 08:31 AM
I dig them specs! That's amazing pricing if they hold to the same % in the US!

130hp doesnt sound like much but 2160 pounds is not a lot to pull around. This thing is gonna be fun.

Exactly what I thought when I saw it in Autoweek. There's pretty much no way it'll sticker for US$10k in the US, but we can hope for under $25k (or even under $20k as others have said). I hope they do bring it here. Can't wait! :)

Ichitaka05
10-13-2015, 09:46 AM
Wow~ someone wasn't happy lol

http://dailykanban.com/2015/10/allegedly-leaked-s-fr-specs-total-bullshit-toyota-manager-says/

shark_bait88
10-13-2015, 10:08 AM
Wow~ someone wasn't happy lol

http://dailykanban.com/2015/10/allegedly-leaked-s-fr-specs-total-bullshit-toyota-manager-says/

He does make some fair points about how the process of developing complex products, like cars, occurs.

Although, from a marketing standpoint I'd be all for just about anything that gains international attention for a new product. Play into the rumors, offer coy remarks that don't confirm anything but elude to exciting specs/details. Unless of course the specs that were leaked were better than what we actually knew we could do...

Ichitaka05
10-13-2015, 10:39 AM
He does make some fair points about how the process of developing complex products, like cars, occurs.

Although, from a marketing standpoint I'd be all for just about anything that gains international attention for a new product. Play into the rumors, offer coy remarks that don't confirm anything but elude to exciting specs/details. Unless of course the specs that were leaked were better than what we actually knew we could do...

I do agree... but at the same time, which & what Toyota manager?

Can't say much, but this project is under ZR department which is pretty high up of the Toyota/Lexus Racing/Gazoo Racing department. No ordinary Toyota manager gonna know tiniest info about this.

& if you guys are wondering, Tada-san, who is Chief Engineer for FT-86 is the head of ZR department & no, hes not a Chief Engineer for this project, but he do over look this project (if that make sense).

Tcoat
10-13-2015, 11:00 AM
Not sure there's $8k worth, but here's some differences that would allow for a cheaper price than the FR-S:

1) 1.5L I4 Toyota motor verses 2.0L Subaru Boxer motor
2) No LSD (assumed)
3) No Air Bags in seats (assumed), or alternatively airbags in seats but no side curtain ones...or maybe no airbags except for driver and passenger ones...
4) More extensive use of Toyota parts-bin components
5) Re-using some parts developed for the FR-S (cost sharing)
6) 4-bolt versus 5-bolt design (hubs/brakes/wheels)


^^ I think these are good possibilities, though I assume the airbag systems aren't going to be skimped on with the crash safety standards of today. Also, the front and rear suspension appears to be simplified from the FR-S. Perhaps dialed in from test mules and then made more cheaply than FR-S suspension parts with less potential for drastic re-adjustment.

But I do hope an LSD is at least an optional package if not standard. If it's not even available I'd be less interested. The 130hp sounds fine but open diff only would be rather boring. I think it will be optional at the very least.

Yes the airbags will not be able to be eliminated or it will never pas the N.A. side impact crash test requirements.

shark_bait88
10-13-2015, 11:04 AM
I do agree... but at the same time, which & what Toyota manager?

Can't say much, but this project is under ZR department which is pretty high up of the Toyota/Lexus Racing/Gazoo Racing department. No ordinary Toyota manager gonna know tiniest info about this.

& if you guys are wondering, Tada-san, who is Chief Engineer for FT-86 is the head of ZR department & no, hes not a Chief Engineer for this project, but he do over look this project (if that make sense).

That all makes plenty of sense. I've heard that working for a Japanese automotive company is pretty similar to working for a German automotive company, which I know a thing or two about.

I'm seriously questioning who that "Toyota manager" is as well. Since only one, rather obscure, source seems to have him as a source. If Toyota really wanted to debunk these rumored specs, they'd likely issue an official statement or press release.

Ichitaka05
10-13-2015, 11:11 AM
I'm seriously questioning who that "Toyota manager" is as well. Since only one, rather obscure, source seems to have him as a source. If Toyota really wanted to debunk these rumored specs, they'd likely issue an official statement or press release.

I can tell you, even these info to be false, they won't do press release to clear things up. Cuz they want these rumor and story to keep going to bring more interest.

Just like FT-86 Concepts, they let em happen with all the turbo and AWD rumors.

Tcoat
10-13-2015, 11:14 AM
Not sure there's $8k worth, but here's some differences that would allow for a cheaper price than the FR-S:

1) 1.5L I4 Toyota motor verses 2.0L Subaru Boxer motor
2) No LSD (assumed)
3) No Air Bags in seats (assumed), or alternatively airbags in seats but no side curtain ones...or maybe no airbags except for driver and passenger ones...
4) More extensive use of Toyota parts-bin components
5) Re-using some parts developed for the FR-S (cost sharing)
6) 4-bolt versus 5-bolt design (hubs/brakes/wheels)


He does make some fair points about how the process of developing complex products, like cars, occurs.

Although, from a marketing standpoint I'd be all for just about anything that gains international attention for a new product. Play into the rumors, offer coy remarks that don't confirm anything but elude to exciting specs/details. Unless of course the specs that were leaked were better than what we actually knew we could do...


I do agree... but at the same time, which & what Toyota manager?

Can't say much, but this project is under ZR department which is pretty high up of the Toyota/Lexus Racing/Gazoo Racing department. No ordinary Toyota manager gonna know tiniest info about this.

& if you guys are wondering, Tada-san, who is Chief Engineer for FT-86 is the head of ZR department & no, hes not a Chief Engineer for this project, but he do over look this project (if that make sense).

If you read some of his other blogs you will note he seems to think very highly of himself and obviously has a deep personal hatred of anything Toyota.

Nevermore
10-13-2015, 11:21 AM
I wonder if my dad has any information. He's not in the automotive design part, but he's an engineer and has access to many things. I just have to watch out because he loves to make things up and has a tendency to sound very convincing.

Ichitaka05
10-13-2015, 11:25 AM
If you read some of his other blogs you will note he seems to think very highly of himself and obviously has a deep personal hatred of anything Toyota.


I didn't even bother reading other article. It's same person who can't even spell "S-FR" correctly in other article he wrote. If you're wondering here's the article (SF-R (http://dailykanban.com/2015/10/about-those-mysterious-toyota-sf-r-specs/))

cyde01
10-13-2015, 11:26 AM
Honestly, the magazine scans look very much to me like scans from Japan's Best Car magazine. Best Car is known mostly for rumors of unreleased cars, and is known to wildly embellish their predictions of future models. However, sometimes they do get their info right. Example: they were the first to report that the FT86 might have a Subaru flat-4, they had this info even before Moto-san from Club 4ag new about it. They also had extremely accurate renderings of the finalized design of the FRS, LFA, and GT-R before they were released to the public (albeit maybe a week or two before official photos were released).

Having said all that, I would call these specs educated guesses about what the final specs might be based off of knowledge of Toyota's current lineup and possibly discussions with insiders. The price sounds more and more like wishful thinking.

Ichitaka05
10-13-2015, 11:33 AM
Honestly, the magazine scans look very much to me like scans from Japan's Best Car magazine. Best Car is known mostly for rumors of unreleased cars, and is known to wildly embellish their predictions of future models. However, sometimes they do get their info right. Example: they were the first to report that the FT86 might have a Subaru flat-4, they had this info even before Moto-san from Club 4ag new about it. They also had extremely accurate renderings of the finalized design of the FRS, LFA, and GT-R before they were released to the public (albeit maybe a week or two before official photos were released).

Having said all that, I would call these specs educated guesses about what the final specs might be based off of knowledge of Toyota's current lineup and possibly discussions with insiders. The price sounds more and more like wishful thinking.

You're prob 90% true... except Moto-san part. He knew and saw the design before anyone outside of Toyota. iirc he met with Tada0san and saw the design in '07

cyde01
10-13-2015, 11:42 AM
You're prob 90% true... except Moto-san part. He knew and saw the design before anyone outside of Toyota. iirc he met with Tada0san and saw the design in '07

I know Moto-san was getting the inside scoop directly from Tada-san, but he did not know about the flat-4 initially. Back when we were on Club4ag discussing the new hachiroku and the rumors of a flat-4 first started coming out on Best Car and Mag X, he was disappointed just like the rest of us and wished it wasn't true. But he eventually warmed up to the idea. I think this was before the first FT86 concept was even shown.

shark_bait88
10-13-2015, 11:44 AM
I can tell you, even these info to be false, they won't do press release to clear things up. Cuz they want these rumor and story to keep going to bring more interest.

Exactly the point I made earlier.

Ichitaka05
10-13-2015, 11:46 AM
I know Moto-san was getting the inside scoop directly from Tada-san, but he did not know about the flat-4 initially. Back when we were on Club4ag discussing the new hachiroku and the rumors of a flat-4 first started coming out on Best Car and Mag X, he was disappointed just like the rest of us and wished it wasn't true. But he eventually warmed up to the idea. I think this was before the first FT86 concept was even shown.

He purposely denied about boxer engine til Toyota officially announced praying that it wasn't true. He's a hardcore 4AG (& i6) fan. He still have bittersweet feeling about boxer engine lol

cyde01
10-13-2015, 12:07 PM
so you mean to tell me that was all an act... lol

Vracer111
10-13-2015, 12:09 PM
Yes the airbags will not be able to be eliminated or it will never pas the N.A. side impact crash test requirements.

You mean side curtain AND seat airbags are required in every vehicle now? Is there even enough room between the seat and door for the two to work properly together in the S-FR?

Tcoat
10-13-2015, 02:30 PM
You mean side curtain AND seat airbags are required in every vehicle now? Is there even enough room between the seat and door for the two to work properly together in the S-FR?

Totally depends on the whole structure and crumple zones of the car. There will need to be at least one or the other but probably both. The whole car is too small to have the impact beams and buckle points that would reduce the requirement.

Tcoat
10-15-2015, 06:33 AM
Wow~ someone wasn't happy lol

http://dailykanban.com/2015/10/allegedly-leaked-s-fr-specs-total-bullshit-toyota-manager-says/

Admin,
I was hoping you would comment on this Blog article and clear up where the tech data came from. If it is indeed still just rumour then that should be made clear. It is understood that you may not be able to say much but the way it was presented it appeared to be at least semi official.

Sarlacc
10-17-2015, 05:24 AM
Wow~ someone wasn't happy lol

http://dailykanban.com/2015/10/allegedly-leaked-s-fr-specs-total-bullshit-toyota-manager-says/

Interesting. But can we trust a man who doesn't even know how to spell Genchi Genbutsu (現地現物)?
I think not.

Also, "a well–informed Toyota manager"... No name given...
I can call one of those right now and get an earful of
"If it's on the internet and I haven't been told then it's lies. LIES, I say. Oh, and the next generation GT86 will be hybrid. But don't tell anyone, it's a well-guarded secret."

Tcoat
10-17-2015, 07:54 AM
Interesting. But can we trust a man who doesn't even know how to spell Genchi Genbutsu (現地現物)?
I think not.

Also, "a well–informed Toyota manager"... No name given...
I can call one of those right now and get an earful of
"If it's on the internet and I haven't been told then it's lies. LIES, I say. Oh, and the next generation GT86 will be hybrid. But don't tell anyone, it's a well-guarded secret."
Reading through the man's other post can be very entertaining actually. Unfortunately he is not the only one stating the specs are not official.

Sarlacc
10-17-2015, 09:28 AM
Reading through the man's other post can be very entertaining actually. Unfortunately he is not the only one stating the specs are not official.

I don't see what's so unfortunate. This only means it's not certain this car will have a toothless 1.5L/130PS engine, it could get a higher power/weight ratio than the ZN6, which would be cool.

Tcoat
10-17-2015, 12:36 PM
I don't see what's so unfortunate. This only means it's not certain this car will have a toothless 1.5L/130PS engine, it could get a higher power/weight ratio than the ZN6, which would be cool.

Agree 100%!

Vracer111
10-17-2015, 02:26 PM
Could put the 1.8L that is in the Scion iM...but then the 0-to-60 time the S-FR could get with that motor would throw everyone with an 86 into a hissy fit... LOL

Neme303
10-17-2015, 05:55 PM
Could put the 1.8L that is in the Scion iM...but then the 0-to-60 time the S-FR could get with that motor would throw everyone with an 86 into a hissy fit... LOL

I'll never understand why so many people get bent out of shape about these engines. It was the same with the S-chassis cars, Everyone and their grandma wanted an SR, RB, Turbo-ing the KA, or VQ when everytime i would so much as utter "CA" they did everything but beat me with rocks.

I never got it, Take a slightly under powered engine, and do light tuning and improvements and then you have and engine that's stable.

call me old fashioned but I've never liked big power. I like care that are light and fun. That's why I like the FR-S and that's why i like the S-FR

Psy-q
10-29-2015, 09:43 AM
So many FT86Club people on here lol.

I have a very hard time believing these specs. Here is why:

Recent Toyota Mazda collaboration means they can use their Miata platform.

The location of the tow hook and the HVAC vents indicates strong Mazda DNA.

There is no radio. Only logical location for a radio in that interior is a iPad on top of dash thing like the Miata.

Toyota does not have a RWD McPherston strut platform that small except the AZ6 and I don't think they can just "shrink" a platform.

It is much more cost effective to stretch a platform than to shrink a platform. Therefore - stretched Miata.

Finally: - No auto option? Imagine presenting that to the board - lets build a car and avoid 60% of the potential market. I am sure it will have an Auto.

Either way I am very excited.

Callie
10-29-2015, 10:43 AM
So many FT86Club people on here lol.

I have a very hard time believing these specs. Here is why:

Recent Toyota Mazda collaboration means they can use their Miata platform.

The location of the tow hook and the HVAC vents indicates strong Mazda DNA.

There is no radio. Only logical location for a radio in that interior is a iPad on top of dash thing like the Miata.

Toyota does not have a RWD McPherston strut platform that small except the AZ6 and I don't think they can just "shrink" a platform.

It is much more cost effective to stretch a platform than to shrink a platform. Therefore - stretched Miata.

Finally: - No auto option? Imagine presenting that to the board - lets build a car and avoid 60% of the potential market. I am sure it will have an Auto.

Either way I am very excited.

Have you seen this site's interview with Toyota at the show?

http://www.sfrforums.com/forums/showthread.php?102-SFRforums-live-S-FR-photos-from-2015-TMS-with-Q-amp-A-interview

It's a 100% Toyota car so it's got nothing to do with Miata or Mazda.

And according to the Toyota rep in the interview, there will be both auto and manual option.

Ichitaka05
10-29-2015, 10:50 AM
So many FT86Club people on here lol.

Cuz who ever posted the SFR in Other car thread, used this forum, so we just reg lol

Yeah, like callie stated, in the interview, it's gonna be Toyota in-house project... which I'm surprised to see.

Psy-q
10-29-2015, 11:10 AM
Cuz who ever posted the SFR in Other car thread, used this forum, so we just reg lol

Yeah, like callie stated, in the interview, it's gonna be Toyota in-house project... which I'm surprised to see.

It makes no sence to me at all. Toyota could not afford the AZ6 and had to basically use an Impreza GR rear end and boxer engine.

This car will sell in even less numbers, I presume, yet it is 100% toyota?

And how do you explain an almost identcial HVAC vents placement as the Miata? Wierd.

Ichitaka05
10-29-2015, 11:43 AM
It makes no sence to me at all. Toyota could not afford the AZ6 and had to basically use an Impreza GR rear end and boxer engine.

This car will sell in even less numbers, I presume, yet it is 100% toyota?

And how do you explain an almost identcial HVAC vents placement as the Miata? Wierd.

Not disagreeing with you, but Toyota rep stated its all in-house. Toyota rep stated, it's still a concept car & not a final production ver. SFR Concept have over 75% of interior from the twins. 80% from ND... but it's still okay, it's just a concept still.

As for FRS/BRZ using GR rear is cuz twins are made at FHI factory & not Toyota factory. they wanted to make minimal stress on FHI. Can't say too much detail (cuz idk the full detail myself).